Forum - Feedback - Camera movement

Forum - Feedback - Camera movement - Messages http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Forum - Feedback - Camera movement - Messages en-us http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Jitbit AspNetForum Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:16:40 GMT Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:16:40 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from herseem Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:16:40 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from herseem
I also wanted to do some camera movement shots and I've found the current camera movement options to be a real nuisance. I have previously used a free animation program called Anim8 - I expect some people here have used it. It has a much better system for camera motion in that you can set views at different points on the timeline and it will work out the position and angle for all the intermediate frames. Enabling start and end points and Muvizu creating smooth and progressive movement between them would be much more in keeping with the philosophy of Muvizu itself, which is direct, don't animate. Directing the camera motion is a key part of direction.

A key point about setting intermediate camera positions / characteristics (eg, degree of zoom, depth of field) on the timeline and allowing Muvizu to create the movement / change from one position to another is that you can run the animation, and if you're not entirely happy with the results, you can move one of the intermediate points, either along the timeline or the position in 3D, or adjust the parameters, and run it again. That is considerably easier to end up with what you wanted than having to manually reproduce what might be a complicated series of movements and adjustments until you get it right.

Even if you get the camera movement right, if you decide you need to reposition a character slightly or change the timing of a particular event (eg, moving from one place to another), all you might need to do would be adjust a couple of intermediate camera positions or angles to keep the camera in sync with the motion.

What I'm looking to create right now is a flying camera view similar to what is often used at the intro of variety of TV programmes. Simply having the camera track a character would not be adequate for that.

The way I anticipate this approach would manifest that would be easiest to understand and most similar to the current way of creating cameras is that instead of creating a camera, you'd first create one of perhaps several camera tracks. You'd then create a camera position, which would be exactly the same as creating a camera, except that you'd assign a camera position to a camera track. Then each camera position would have additional attributes of whether it was first, last or intermediate position, and position on the timeline. First last or intermediate would be determined automatically but it would be at least visible. You could move a camera track backwards and forwards on the timeline in the same way that you can move other tracks backwards and forwards (and therefore moving all the intermediate points simultaneously) as well as adjusting individual camera positions in relation to the camera timeline as a whole.

You might want to just have a camera shift it's focal point during a shot, from foreground to background, for instance (In the Disney cartoon version of Aladdin there's a shot that does that). You'd create a camera track, go to two different points on the timeline, and create your identical camera positions in exactly the same position in each, adjust the focal point on the two cameras separately, and assign them to the same camera track. Actually, you'd probably have four camera positions there: one each at the beginning and end and the two either side of the transition from one focal point to the other. So the camera itself wouldn't move in that instance, but the focal point would change smoothly between the two cameras either side of the focal point transition as the timeline progresses.

When directing and choosing which camera had the shot, camera positions assigned to a camera track would not be selectable, only camera tracks would be selectable as if they were individual static cameras. So when directing the chosen viewpoint, the available shots to select from would be a mixture of static cameras and camera tracks.

In my opinion that would be a highly-regarded facility.

Mike Hersee]]> Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:41:46 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Quorthon simonheffer wrote:

Tracking is definitely a good idea although I think I'd still prefer my own way-points (with opportunity to edit camera properties like depth of field at those points). As I'm sure I've mentioned before moving the field of view smoothly is a pain - no chance of that Jaws shot zooming in on Brody on the beach.

Another point slightly off topic , but when I right-click the camera view to go to the camera I'd much rather be positioned behind the camera i.e. go to the view the cameras showing. Most of the time I go to the camera I want to move it and it's easier from behind the camera.
Simon

I agree with the tracking idea. I've just spent two hours (it's 01:58am) on a simple camera movement - rotating the camera and zooming a little to capture a view of a character who has fallen to the ground, and I'm still getting nowhere. I can just about handle the mouse movement of the camera during 'Prepare' but during 'Direct' the movement is reversed and the view veers off the wrong way. I've tried both camera rotation options and the movement is still reversed. Plus, only today, when I select a camera to direct the viewpoint is often positioned looking directly into the lens, instead of behind the camera - even though I've got the start location as 'locked behind camera'. I've tried restarting Muvizu but it still does it. Sorry, I didn't mean to have a moan, but I would certainly like to see the camera system over-hauled, and a path system with way points seems a leap forward. I'm very impressed with those of you who can get the cameras to do what you want!]]> Thu, 12 Jul 2012 02:11:09 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from simonheffer
Another point slightly off topic , but when I right-click the camera view to go to the camera I'd much rather be positioned behind the camera i.e. go to the view the cameras showing. Most of the time I go to the camera I want to move it and it's easier from behind the camera.

Simon]]> Fri, 06 Jul 2012 18:24:12 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Dreeko Marco_D wrote:

Hi Mr. D,

I think those are two excellent ways to improve camera movement.
I honestly don't know the required technical specifications to do this, but what I will do is put this in as an improvement

Nice brainstorming guys.

Cheers,
M

I particularly like the idea of overshoot, where the camera has a slight lag in following the character path and slightly goes beyond when the character stops and then smooths its way back to position.

Do you get what I mean by this one folks?]]> Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:54:38 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Marco_D Dreeko wrote:

What are the present thoughts on moving the cameras in a way similar to the methods used for characters?

ie.
Clicking on the ground plane for waypoints with a slider for speed and height. (separate timelines?)
Using the same ball in a circle control method (presently used for head movement) for pivoting the camera around.
A "look at" option which would lock the camera view on a selected character/object with the ability to animate this on and off.

Another one which has just came to me..
Loose tracking.
The camera uses the same recorded movement path as the character/object but can be position away from the character with an optional overshoot controlled by an adjustable slider (similar to the smoothing option)This could obviously work in conjunction with the"look at" feature.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
D
edited by Dreeko on 27/06/2012

Hi Mr. D,

I think those are two excellent ways to improve camera movement.
I honestly don't know the required technical specifications to do this, but what I will do is put this in as an improvement

Nice brainstorming guys.

Cheers,
M
edited by Marco_D on 28/06/2012]]> Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:36:13 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from WozToons ]]> Thu, 28 Jun 2012 00:50:23 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Dreeko
ie.
Clicking on the ground plane for waypoints with a slider for speed and height. (separate timelines?)
Using the same ball in a circle control method (presently used for head movement) for pivoting the camera around.
A "look at" option which would lock the camera view on a selected character/object with the ability to animate this on and off.

Another one which has just came to me..
Loose tracking.
The camera uses the same recorded movement path as the character/object but can be position away from the character with an optional overshoot controlled by an adjustable slider (similar to the smoothing option)This could obviously work in conjunction with the"look at" feature.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
D
edited by Dreeko on 27/06/2012]]> Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:32:43 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Dylly Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:13:43 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Marco_D
I didn't run a test myself since our controllers are wireless, but I did managed to talk to GlasgowJim. His results were not encouraging I'm afraid.

We will keep looking for other solutions

Cheers,
M]]> Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:25:39 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Marco_D
He posted something along this lines:

"Also, if you have a control pad that is compatible with your PC (like the XBox 360 one) you can use an application like XPadder to allow you to use it to control Muvizu:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Xpadder.shtml"

Cheers,
M
edited by Marco_D on 26/06/2012]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:53:59 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Dreeko Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:19:46 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Jamie Marco_D wrote:

Have you tried to use a XBox controller for the camera? I remember seeing one of my former colleagues doing that and he was quite impressed with the results

Yeah, that was Gordon. He wasn't using it in Muvizu though, it was in morpheme as he was preparing animations to go into Muvizu. Currently there isn't anyway to simply connect a games controller and just use it.

What you can try, and I had some luck with it using a WiiMote, is GlovePie.

https://sites.google.com/site/carlkenner/glovepie
http://glovepie.org/glovepie.php
http://dragonage.nexusmods.com/mods/2689

Basically its works by mapping keyboard or mouse controls (and combinations thereof) to buttons on whatever controller you are using.

I think there is a xbox controller in the office so if I get a chance I'll give it a go.]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:51:15 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Marco_D

Let me know if you try it.

Cheers,
M]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:42:34 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from skylike Marco_D wrote:

Hi everyone,

*drum roll*

Have you tried to use a XBox controller for the camera? I remember seeing one of my former colleagues doing that and he was quite impressed with the results

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Marco

]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:38:45 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from freakmoomin
But im in agreement. The Camera movement stuff is pretty difficult to work and
could be improved quite a bit in my opinion.

But im just a lowly animator...what do i know

]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:38:13 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Marco_D
*drum roll*

Have you tried to use a XBox controller for the camera? I remember seeing one of my former colleagues doing that and he was quite impressed with the results

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Marco]]> Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:21:08 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from Danimal HayManMarc wrote:

I have found that camera manipulation while filming is incredibly difficult.

Really? I've always found it ridiculously simple.

HA! I kid of course, it's possibly one of the worst systems for moving anything anywhere and I have said so many times. But, as long as you never move the camera, it's a good system.]]> Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:57:18 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from ziggy72 Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:01:32 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from HayManMarc Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:37:07 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from ziggy72 Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:03:43 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from gimmick
tip : in Muvizu, the camera manipulation with keys is a bit easier than with mouse]]> Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:07:38 GMT http://www.muvizu.com/Forum/topic1675-camera-movement.aspx Message from HayManMarc Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:48:54 GMT